An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Gun Review: SIG SAUER MCX Rattler SBR - The Truth About Guns 4. It may not display this or other websites correctly. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. So these two were on my list . Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. View Product. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. So was the grip and handguard. Sig Sauer. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB vs The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? New! We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Thats as short as ARs get. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Its truly impressive. models. You have entered an incorrect email address! Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. Lets see if our money was well spent. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. They are dead to me. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design . For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Keep Reading. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Wow just read the article on TTAG. What more can you ask for? If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. The Rattler is, essentially, as. I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. But thats not really new, either. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. Springfield Saint AR-15 [Review] - Pew Pew Tactical The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. I usually have to take break between mags. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . I really appreciate the input. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. I cant understand that. Matte Black. Cookie Notice Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. SIG Rattler: Why the MCX Is the Perfect 300 Blackout PDW Solution Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint Life has a melody. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. The Sig Sauer Rattler. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. They said nothing as short as the rattler. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. One new winner* is announced every week! AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. New Rattler- Should have done my homework. | SIG Talk The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. The Premier Body Armor Vertx Collaboration Adds More Options, VIDEO: Police Snipers Train for Super Bowl LIV With .50 BMG, More, The MAUSER 98 125th Anniversary Limited-Edition Series, FIRST LOOK: Glock Just Very Quietly Unveiled the New Glock 47 Pistol, Police Sidearms: The Handguns of Americas 10 Largest Departments, Black Creek Labs MRX Bronco, TRX Bronco Hunter Rifles, CMP Surplus Ammo Coming Soon in M2 Ball, .30 Carbine & More, Active School Shooter Training: 14 Key Points to Consider, 5 Strategies For Effectively Completing a Tactical Reload, FIRST LOOK: Colt CBX Precision Chassis Rifle Ready to Compete & Win, 5 Common Myths on How to Survive a Gunfight, Understanding Stand Your Ground Laws and Castle Doctrine, Long-Distance Shooting: 5 Must-Know Tips For Spotters & Shooters, IMPACT Experience Events Redefine Your Long-Range Shooting Limits, Sniper Skills: Taking Your Shooting Precision to the Next Level. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. Filter SIG MCX . For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. SIG's Rattler pistols come with a 5.5 inch PDW threaded barrel and removable tool-less M-Lok Handguard. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. This is the MCX Rattler. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . Please keep us posted. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. The Sig Virtus has these possible configurations: 300 Blackout: Barrel Lengths 6.75", 9", and 16" 5.56mm : Barrel Lengths 11.5" and 16" The Virtus is the more flexible platform, but there is nothing wrong with the Rattler. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. I said you really loved shooting the orange . The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. Target order was dictated as a circuit of left, center, right, left, center, right, and so on. 5.56 Rattler? | SIG Talk Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association The detent spring was quite heavy and the grip necessary to compress it proved awkward. 300 AAC Blackout. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. Pistol: Semi-Auto. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. A PDW is not a rifle. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). At the range, my first order of business was zeroing the Rattler and shooting five-shot groups with it at 50 yards using loads from Barnes, Hornady, Lehigh Defense and Sig. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. All Rights Reserved. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. Apr 24, 2017 I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Provided for advice, just in case you talk yourself into buying one. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. You have entered an incorrect email address! Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. Brand: Springfield. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. No, but it was never designed to be. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. The SIG Rattler is something special. | The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Sig Sauer New M400 Tread Snakebite SE 5.56 - The Armory Life Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO.